Update: Here's an article about the incident here from KPBS.
So I had quite an interesting experience at Band of Horses that resulted in a 4 in the morning rant on my MySpace. In hindsight, I'm less pissed about what went down and the truth is that in reading my rant was chock full of expletives which then makes me no better than the guy I'm calling a whiny bitch. He was doing what he does, I was doing what I do. Doesn't mean I'll be buying that October release or ever hyping or seeing the band again, but consider this your warning if you proceed to read my following MySpace rant:
There are so many ways to approach what I’m about to write that it’s been stewing in my head all night long. So I’ll just write and hopefully you get the gist of what I want to say.
First, let me rewind. Last year, one of my favorite discs of the year was Band of Horses’ “Everything All The Time”. I listened to it incessantly and was completely saddened by the fact that when they played San Diego on their tour, it was at the Epicentre on my 30th birthday and there was no rescheduling the party I’d planned at my house. I even went so far as messaging the band on MySpace suggesting that after their all ages and early ending show that they were invited to my party. Their failure to respond didn’t really bother me as I’m sure MySpace wasn’t quite their priority at the time.
Fast forward to tonight. Andrea and I scored free tickets to the show (Thank you, Owen!) and I sold off the ticket I had paid for, minus the service charges. We decided to have dinner in “Cane’s Cantina” with our 2 for 1 coupon. Dinner was decent though not great. My sandwich had more bread than meat, but whatever, we were enjoying the fact that we could sit down with some good chips and salsa while we waited for the show.
A bunch of our friends showed up so we completely missed both opening bands, which from what I heard, were less than impressive anyway. We made our way into the venue and maneuvered up to the front and I was posturing for photos. The energy through me was unstoppable, finally getting to see a band whose CD was such a big part of my life only a year ago.
There was a guy in front of me spying on my maneuvering who let me get in front of him because he was tall and let us shorties up front. Thanks a ton to that guy. But then there was the other guy who has only ever heard “Funeral” and was basically just taking up space with his ditsy blonde and somehow we maneuvered in front of him, too.
So there I was, up front, maybe two rows back from the stage, excited to see Band Of Horses. At first I took a few pictures, among the many people taking pictures. There were a few songs I recorded thinking I’d stick them on YouTube and whatnot, like I have with so many other bands before. About 8 songs into the set, BoH finally played “Funeral” which all the bros from Mission Beach and PB kept calling out for.
So there I am with my tiny Sony digital camera, capturing the song, and suddenly I realize I’m getting flipped off by the singer. While playing the super emotional song, “Funeral”, he flip me off and mid song yells, “I see you recording me.” I look around and at least 5 other people are taping him and he calls me out. Fuck you. I duck out and I am fucking outta there. There’s nothing worse than a fucking whiny baby onstage. It wasn’t bad enough that earlier in the set he complained about the sound and the mix, asking his band, “Should we keep playing?” Now he’s gonna be a whiny bitch about me recording his shit. Fuck him. I was outta there.
I was there long enough for the end of the song to come when he went off on some tirade about people YouTubin his shit for “profile cred”.
Actually, NO. I YouTube bands that I like, that I think should be selling more records than some shit ass band like Black Eyed Peas. In my small blog way, I would hope to turn people on to good, quality music, and several bands have e-mailed me to thank me for posting pictures or YouTube footage of them, and even link to me on their respective websites, but apparently Band of Horses is too fucking good and too fucking cool and too fucking awesome to accept whatever publicity they can get.
In a recent CityBeat interview, the band described being homeless and broke. In my own tiny way, I hoped to publicize a band to my readers that is still relatively unknown. This night made me decide that they deserve all the shit they have ever been dished in their lives. Or at least the singer, who apparently got a whole new band for his second album. As far as I’m concerned, he can go fuck himself.
Do not expect any future publicity here for the Bandaid on Horseshit as I’m now calling them. I’m really happy they’re playing with the Decemberists, known for being a cool as shit band, because it will be their biggest show ever and then they’ll fizzle and fucking head back into obscurity. That October release? Fuck you. Good luck with that. I’m not claiming to have any more influence than I do, but nobody likes a fucking dick and that’s all you were tonight. Suck shit, you fucking motherfucker. And while you’re at it, shave your shit. The beard is sooo overplayed. You’re not homeless anymore… or are you?
Wow, I really didn't know it was that bad. What a total Diva. He should only play places where there are no video taping allowed if it really makes him that mad. They were just OK in Hollywood, nothing too impressive. I prefer their albums over live shows obviously.
id like it better with a profane tirade directed against you.
Yeah, that would probably be more fair...I wish I'd captured his youtube rant after the song, but I was so mad I stormed off and was near the door when he said it.
Though still irritated about the thing, my rant is definitely cringeworthy...
I was at the show standing left of the stage. Although I didn't notice him give you the "salute", I did hear the Youtube quip. After you left, he proceeded to pout for the next several songs...until the crowd forced them back out for the encore, and then a second. By that point his ego was fluffed up again and finished the show on a positive note. Still left a bad taste in my mouth though.
IMHO, contrary to the feedback you got on the opening bands, I really enjoyed A Decent Animal. They more than made up for the BoH episode. You have to dig up a picture of their bass player!
You should just upload the part with the bird and the "I see you filming" and call it "a message from Band of Horses to their fans." For them to attack and insult people who are fans for BEING FANS is nauseating. I will never support this band ever ever again and I hope others do the same.
Just to follow up, my friend was working the show that night and thought I should know that he told the BoH guys my deal and that they were apologizing profusely, not only in the encore, but backstage after the show. I had already split. Apparently the beef wasn't with me filming, it was with me filming "Funeral" because people only go to the show to capture that song in the minds of BoH. Would he feel better if he knew I also captured two of the new songs from their upcoming release that will now never see the light of day?
They even went so far as to say they should stop playing it. My argument was that if one "hit" elevates an indie band to the "next level", to be upset about it is incredibly insulting to fans. Considering the band will be opening on the next Modest Mouse tour, they should be grateful they're in a position a million indie bands will never achieve. If they'd prefer to play 200 capacity venues for $8 like so many other bands do, I'm sure a hundred better bands will step up and relish the honor.
So........Ben Bridwell from Band of Horse gives you rthe finger while your video taping, you retreat and leave a blog that would put my new born babies crying to shame. Your the one who needs to step back bro. Get a grip and find some tough skin.
Thanks for finding my blog! Perhaps you were just scanning and didn't get the chance to read the entire post:
"...resulted in a 4 in the morning rant on my MySpace. In hindsight, I'm less pissed about what went down and the truth is that in reading my rant was chock full of expletives which then makes me no better than the guy I'm calling a whiny bitch. He was doing what he does, I was doing what I do."
But thanks for reiterating that I was a crybaby. It must feel really good to point out the flaws in people to make yourself feel so much better.
Keep Reading, m'kay! I need more people like you in my life fer sure!!! OMGROTFL!!
There's nothing more annoying than going to a concert and being surrounded by cellphones and cameras in the air. I don't understand why people need to stock pictures and crappy live footage on their computers, i doubt that you're gonna watch more than two times what you recorded. There was a time when going to a concert was an "experience", yes it's frustating because when you leave the place you have nothing left but memories, but this is the beauty of it!
Not for nothin', but I saw them last September at a sold-out show at a smallish club in DC. Loved that disc, but I came away much less a fan than when I walked in. Very staid and more than a little sloppy.
Maybe I'm jaded from seeing so many 'indie' bands who are really great live (Spoon, CYHSY, Octopus Project even Interpol), but what I'm getting at is him flipping you off during that song was probably the high point of that show, unless they played Wicked Gil before that.
Nice to see he's owned up to being a jerk on PF, but what it boils down to is they just aren't a very good live band, and should be happy that anyone--jocks or otherwise--are still coming to see them on the strength of an indie debut that's over a year old. Most bands I've seen in the last few years would kill for problems like having disinterested fans up front at a sold out show.
So good on ya', rosey. I'd feel the same way.
...touring. quite grueling if you ask me, then adding a bitch like yourself videoing his "heartfelt" song, so you can spread the opium to the mass's....cause you know what, band of horses needs a dumbass bitch's shitty digital camera recording to boost there profile. try pitchfork music festival, touring the all of america, europe...i think there doing well on record sells...sub pop is such a hard label to survive off of....your the type of people i hate to stand next to at concerts...so fucking intent on getting that precious moment on your camera that your actually missing it in real life...just so you can show your friends that you went to see show. fuck you.
Band of Horses are an awesome band. This little episode will not make me not want to see them. Hell I understand why he did what he did. And now I cant wait to see them.
So have you changed your mind about the band? You gonna get the new album when it comes out?
I have a feeling you will.
Quick question for you: Have you ever had a bad day at work? Ever cursed the clients that help pay your bills? I have, because I am human and prone to making mistakes. I am assuming Ben is human as well and made a mistake. This is a story that should be put to bed.
I'm sorry, but isn't it at all possible the "asshole " was not in the wrong here, but you were? Frankly, you're both being "whiny babies" (if you insist on being so pejorative about it), but here's the difference: only you were committing intellectual property theft that night. For all your protestations of just wanting to "help the band" you were, in fact, stealing from the band. It's as if you walked up to someone, took their wallet out of their pocket, and then got mad when they tried to get it back. I appreciate that your actions were, at least somewhat, motivated by a genuine desire to help the band, but the kind of help you were offering should only be given with the artst's express permission. Otherwise, you're the one who was in the wrong that night.
I think you make very valid points...as far as giving the band free publicity and simply having good intentions.
Unfortunately, those good intentions aren't necessarily beneficial for everyone. Not everyone wants help. Just because you meant well doesn't mean you have the right to do anything you want without going through the proper channels first.
In this case, you wanted to take home a piece of the show, AND offer up your video of the band for everyone to see...seems reasonable, but I'm sure you can also see the band's perspective. Every artist wants full control over their output...its a tough road to making a living as an artist, and there's a lot of intangibles that can make or break a career (Michael Richards?)
My point is, buying tickets to a show doesn't entitle anybody to become a part of the artist's managment or promotions team. And yes, you were singled out out of many people that night...but you were still holding a camera. He singled you out because you were doing something he didn't approve of...that sucks, but if you're in a speeding car and everyone else around you is speeding, doesn't make you innocent.
And yeah technically, videotaping might have been allowed in that venue...but so what? All Band of Horses want from you is to watch, listen, shake your booty, and maybe sing along. No musician wants to play to an audience of cameras. Come on now, you expected him to smile and say "thank you!" you paid to watch an artist ply his trade. Since when can you go into a movie theatre and tape what's on the screen and rationalize it by saying you're giving TRANSFORMERS publicity. Since when do you walk into the ballet with your Videocamera? Why is Music different?
Anyways, no disrepect. I do understand where you're coming from. But you're going to give Band of Horses bad press for reacting negatively to something that I honestly believe they have every right reacting to? That's pretty low. If you're a fan of their music, then you're a fan of their music. If you want every artist to come out and hug you everytime you think you're doing them a favour, I dunno, I have a feeling you're going to be constantly dissappointed, that's all. but if that's what you're looking for, then I suggest you start checking first with bands. If they say no, then you have to live with that.
Ben's side of the story.
ummm, a bit of the pot calling the kettle black?
"It must feel really good to point out the flaws in people to make yourself feel so much better."
You are a whiny bitch. I would have been pissed too if I had to play to that crowd. Band of Horses is still a great band.
What do you feel about his response? Having a crowd at your show for only one song would be a little frustrating for me. I can only imagine the crowd that was there, knowing the area. Even you mentioned the couple there just for Funeral...
Sure you can rant, but try to tame it a little bit.
I hate people who force their way to the front of the stage, and then videotape the show, holding the camera up and blocking everyone else's view. The show isn't just for you. You deserve the rant you got.
Just read the Pitchfork article. What I don't understand is, if Ben doesn't like Cane's, and he'd been there previously (as he says), why did they play there? Yes, the Casbah's too small for them. But has he ever heard of the Belly Up? A little less "jock-y" than anything in the PB/Mission Beach area, and probably a good fit for their music.
Their tour manager dropped the ball on this one. Also, if they don't like people filming, taking photos, etc, DON'T PLAY A VENUE THAT ALLOWS IT. Do some research before booking a show. I've had publicists tell me that photography is "first three songs only, no flash" when a band is playing at the CASBAH. Like, hello, do you know anything about the Casbah? Like the fact that there will be at least 5 other photographers there that didn't bother to ask permission?
Rosey is one of the most discreet photographers at any show I've been to. If she squeezes in front of you to take a photo or video, she always asks first, squats down so as not to ruin your view, and then gets out of your way when she's done. And yeah, she uses flash to take photos, but she's not that drunk girl taking pictures the entire show and blinding everyone else.
I quit reading the comments about half-way down. BoH was wrong to go off on you. Keep posting.
If we're talking about intellectual property theft, I think BoH should be on the hook for ripping of Keep It Like a Secret and Yoshime Battles the Pink Robots. Show me the harm: the youtube video is at the very worst just a barometer of a band's success (i.e. lots of crappy videos mean people care enough to post lots of crappy videos). At best it's how band's careers get made.
Bands love the marketing potential of new media (i.e. youtube) but still think that they and their labels can control it. Take the good with the bad. And don't get all bent out of shape at people filming your songs, especially when you ticket sales and late night TV appearances are all being driven by that single song. And don't get pissed off if jocks and jockettes are coming to your shows--you wrote the songs, BoH. If you don't want to attract people who like popular guitar rock, don't write popular guitar rock. The Locust doesn't have your problem.
Rosey's video didn't block out anyone else's opportunity to see the show. She's five feet tall, and the video was clearly taken from head level.
As for the person talking about Michael Richards, is your point that people should have a right to say racist things in a public forum, so long as it's not too public? I don't really catch your meaning.
As for BoH's comments about the venue and the crowd: I find it interesting that their defense for their actions rests on the environment being overrun by jocks who didn't care about the music. How does that explain losing your cool and directing your anger at one of their most ardent (and physically harmless, I might add) fans?
i'm not going to beat the points i agree with to a pulp and reiterate as a waste of time/space
but there was a scuffle
people have scuffles all the fucking time
it was just a bad time, so fuck guys, let it the fuck go
there's no reason to form vendettas based on the fact that he got mad
jesus christ, he's a musician, his income is generally commission, and you're getting mad at him for being a little ticked when people seem to just come to performances to tape one of their songs, giving less than two shits about the rest?
the song's more than a year old people, give it a rest.
and the dude apologized!
be polite and accept it, he was genuinely sorry for being a bitch, he just felt the need to stand up for a point he strongly believes
accept the fucking apology and move on, there's no reason to form even pettier fucking vendettas against bands you like just because they were a little grouchy. he didn't even ATTACK you, he didn't fucking beat you over the head with a metal sculpture, he didn't even come NEAR YOU. he had a mood swing that he obviously regrets. holy fucking shit.
do you know how many other people have been heckled by on-stage acts for doing something they felt was out of order?
just let it go, christ.
sticks and stones people, maturity is key.
to nathan who suggested tougher skin, i couldn't've said it better m'self.
Let's review here, you were given free tickets to a show, that you showed up 2/3 of the way through, pushed your way up to the front, did a little flash photography before whipping out a video camera. When do we get to the part where you aren't in the wrong. I hate people ruining the atmosphere with their camera nonsense, it is about the music not the image, if you really liked the band you would have been there early asking to plug into the board and get a proper audio recording.
Wow. I think they did the right thing, minus the apologizing for it part.
i'm with bjorn on this.
put your camera away and enjoy the show.
I was referring to Michael Richards in the context of having a video ruin his career. I don't condone racism, obviously. Bt here was a man who wasn't working, struggling to make a comeback, and the video posted of him, offensive as it may be, still doesn't prove anything, as the only people who truly understand the CONTEXT of his seeming breakdown are Michael Richards and the people in the theatre that night who sat through the rest of his (likely lousy anyways) routine. But are you really telling me Michael Richards shouldn't get pissed that someone was videotaping his mental breakdown? You want someone videotaping your lowest point on stage?
Similarly, the CONTEXT of this video is only truly known to Band of Horses and Rosemary. And from what I gather, both parties overreacted in the heat of the moment. Ben apologized. Rosemary still seems to validate her actions. Which is fine. I think any band these days willing to play for an audience of disinterested hipsters has every right to get pissed off when someone's watching through a lens. I fucking hate playing shows where people aren't listening...you paid to see me, but either you're getting your money's worth by being an active audience, or your disrupting things for everyone else.
Viral marketing is an amazing tool for bands that don't have major label backing, but it can be just as damaging as it can be beneficial, and there's no reason an act would want damaging video to surface. They didn't like how the show sounded, so they don't want it posted. If I was a painter and I painted a shitty painting, I would be pretty angry if someone came and took that painting and showed it to everyone.
Yes, once you pay your money, you can do everything you want that you can legally get away with. It doesn't mean you're not being a selfish asshole, and it doesn't entitle you to protection from being told off by a lead singer in the band you're disrupting.
And as far as booking venues that don't have video or photo policies; It's impossible for a band to tour and have every venue be perfectly right in every possible way. You can't ask any band to choose better clubs...things happen, dates have to be scheduled. And most bands are looking for clubs that sound good, have the right capacity for the city...fuck, there's so many goddamn elements that go into booking a venue...Band of Horses isn't Streisand...they don't have the privilege of getting everything they want.
And you'd expect the audience to be there FOR the music anyways. Nobody books a show thinking "gee, everyone there's gonnna be filming, so we should make sure they can't."
Also, For the record, Ben wasn't complaining about jocks and jockettes liking their music. He was complaining about them coming to the show and NOT listening to their music, which is a valid complain. I fucking hate GOING to shows and having a bunch of non-fans yammering away while I'm trying to listen.
I understand the point you're making. My comment wasn't mean to imply that you condone racism: it was simply to make the further point that actions in a public forum are likely to spread far beyond that limited forum in ways that can't be predicted, and that people should act accordingly. I feel bad for Michael Richards having had such a breakdown in a public forum, and of course I wouldn't want someone publicly displaying my worst moments as a person, but that's why, as a performer, I don't scream racial epithets or act offensively to the audience. The technology has changed, and it's going to have to change the way that (even very public) people conduct themselves.
Viral marketing is a big part of marketing for bands with major label support, too. It's not the hail mary marketing solution for underground artists that it's made out to be. It's big because people's orientation to technology is changing, and their ways of connecting to the live performance are changing, too. People like filming. People take pictures literally all the time nowadays. Why would we expect them to act differently at a show?
Also, there's something interesting about the fact that BoH dude, and those like him, not only want to tell you whether or not you're allowed to video their shows, but they seem to believe they have the implicit right to tell you how to enjoy them, too.
That's strange. It's a variant on the whole "well, if you didn't want to get punched in the face and thrown down in a pit, why did you come out to see us tonight?" argument you hear from moshers that's always confused me and implied that there was only one way to enjoy a show. In this case, the blogger in question is getting a hell of a lot of flack for doing something that at most has an effect on a very hard-to-capture, aesthetic part of the show: the belief that someone viewing the world through a lens is creating an artificial moment. Your claiming to hate video and picture-takers because they ruin the aesthetic of the show indicates a pretty illiberal idea (apparently shared by BoH) about what constitutes enjoying a show. Do you feel the same way about the audience singing along loudly and off-key? Do you feel the same way when the audience requests that the band play a song the band didn't originally want to play, but relented and played anyway? Both of these acts would seem to affect your enjoyment of the show a lot more than someone taking video silently.
Finally, I don't read much of what goes down in the interview as an apology:
"As a last sound-off, I apologize to that crowd at Canes that night. I just let it get the best of me, and you got to roll with the punches sometimes, even if you're not having the best time. At least fucking pretend. People pay their hard-earned money, so don't be a dickhead. So I feel bad, and I'm sorry."
The way I read this (and as a person who knows a lot of the related details about the event), that's an apology to the people at 'Canes for the EFFECT THE INCIDENT WITH THE BLOGGER HAD ON OTHER PEOPLE'S ENJOYMENT OF THE SHOW. It's not an apology for flipping someone off and saying insulting things.
On that subject, I refer to another part of the interview:
"I would say, if you want to do that, then go through the right avenues. If you want to do something, contact the label or something, and let's arrange something to do an interview or something. I just don't think that Sneaky Pete with the fucking camera is going to make too many friends, at least to me. I don't know where she's coming from. As far as I'm concerned, it just looks like someone trying to record a really shitty performance to post somewhere and embarrass us forever. I'm sure that she's really nice, and I feel bad that I got upset with her, but at the time it was so fucking annoying.
I don't know what to say. I admit that I was being a fucking asshole. I feel bad to single her out, but it wasn't so much her. It was mostly these other people in front of the stage that seemed so disinterested that kind of got the wheels turning, and once they all popped up with the cameras at the same time, I guess that's where it just exploded."
That's not an apology. That's what's called an explanation. I can explain to you that I was drunk and mad and thought you said something about my mother that led to me hitting you in the mouth, but that's not even in the same ballpark as an apology. An apology would be saying "I'm sorry for singling you out and acting the way I did. Now, I have a larger point to make about video at shows in general." I didn't see anything like that in the interview--instead, the Pitchfork writer did the predictable, chummy thing you do when you're ingratiating yourself to the person you're interviewing and accepted the premise of BoH's answer, his next questions being:
"Pitchfork: Is it like that at most shows you guys have played recently?
BB: It seems to keep happening. You see it getting progressively worse. It's almost like the skateboarding community, where everyone's a fucking photographer now. You look at shots, and it's hard to keep the photographers out of the shot, you know? It kind of seems like the same thing with indie rock; everyone's got a fucking camera in their hand and, I don't know, is there no sanctity left for live performance with going to a show and seeing it with your own eyes and remembering it? Do you have to tape every second, or even just your favorite song? I understand it, but it's becoming annoying.
Pitchfork: Most of the YouTube clips you see of bands performing live aren't even very good quality.
BB: It's terrible! You can never hear anything!
Pitchfork: Maybe you guys should just pull a Fugazi, stop the shows when that happens and tell people to quit it."
Now that's what I call hard hitting journalism. Pitchfork should press a little harder on that kind of stuff; they can actually get away with it.
Hey Rosemary. I met Ben Bridwell while Band of Horses was touring with Iron & Wine, and while he seemed like a pretty nice guy, the way he treated you was appalling. If you don't want people filming you, DON'T ALLOW IT AT THE CONCERT. And even then it doesn't make sense. Yeah, someone can remember the show, but it's also nice to have a couple pictures and maybe a video. I've done it, and I'm sure even Bridwell himself has taken pictures at a concert before. If Bridwell has a problem with it, he should take it up with the venue, not call a fan out and flick them off. Even with an apology, it's hard to look at him the same way. And he should get over the fact about people coming to see just "Funeral". Yes, I think they should buy the album and check out the other songs, however, Funeral is one of the strongest tracks on the album and a great song. What's wrong with people liking it? How many times has pitchfork posted a free mp3 of it on their website? And it's up for free on both insound and the Subpop website. If they have a problem, they shouldn't PUSH THE SONG SO MUCH. And if they want people to buy their album, instead of flicking people off, they should mention that they have merch for sale. I don't want to buy an album if I've only heard one song. But if I see a great show, I'm definitely likely to pick up a copy of the album (and one that I paid for, might I add). Hope things go better for you and as for everyone telling you you should get over it, all I have to say to them is if it happened to you, you'd react the same way.
p.s. I can understand the flash thing sometimes. If it's a dark venue and you're up close I try not to use my flash out of just general respect. However, I was at a Bloc Party show recently and they had strobe lights they put off several times and when I flashed my camera I was told not to use the flash. Which befuddles me? If a band can use strobe lights (which are a nice feature) why can't I flash my camera a few times?
I don't even know where to start. I read about this "incident" and read your blog and then watched the video and was amazed at just how minor an incident this was. You got flipped off? So fucking what? Who do you think you are to get so bent out of shape?
I really can't believe you've fooled yourself into thinking you're giving the band any reasonable publicity with your shitty video and lame blog. This band is on SubPop. They've received nothing but great record reviews. Nobody gives a shit about your musical opinions, so why would your "press" and "publicity" be of any value to this band at all? Get real.
I can't express how strongly I believe that you deserved what you got, and more. If I were Bridwell, I would've taken a slightly different approach: I would have flipped you off and then kicked you out. Nice that you beat him to the punch on that one. You sure showed him.
Do you know how often things like this happen? Every day. And now, thanks to YouTube and idiots like you documenting everyone's move, they have to be held accountable for acting like any normal person would. They had to apologize to yoU! It's unbelievable! They don't owe you an apology; they owe you a punch in the face.
I also love that you're not going to buy the new album. You're kidding! What will the band do now? How will they survive without the $2 that will eventually trickle their way thanks to your honorable support. How about this: I'll buy two copies of every album they put out, just so no other Band of Horses fans will have to put up with your dumbass at their shows. Deal?
Band of Horses hate you, and so do I.
My favorite part about this whole discussion? The number of people who a) don't create culture of any kind, b) don't critique culture of any kind, and c) glean most of their musical information from Pitchfork who seem to feel some sort of kinship with Band of Horses and want to pile on someone like Rosey. Tell me how many times you've been photographed by strangers while performing and I'll take your comments for what they're worth. Until that moment, you strike me as the indie evolution of the kind of people that make apologies for the Lohans and Hiltons of the world while working in a mall food court.
Just to save her the time: publicists and record labels definitely care what she has to say. The fact that you don't see the whole blog world (and this one in particular) as affecting what the media relations people in music do (even when presented with clear evidence, such as the link that brought you here) is only evidence of your own ignorance.
Ever notice how the people making all the tough guy statements and engaging in harsh rhetoric always stay anonymous?
Wow, normally I wouldn't bother with a comment but I can't believe how bent out of shape some of these commenters are. They get pissed off at you...getting pissed off at him...who is pissed off because of a video camera...you are all pathetic. Actually, that's not true. I can understand the singer getting pissed off, and I can understand you getting pissed off, but all these people on this blog?! Saying they hate a random stranger? Are you kidding me? This list of comments, THIS is pathetic. On the bright side, your blog's probably gotten more publicity than anyone out of this whole ordeal.
So easy to judge. I was at the recent show in NYC and I noticed him visibly squint twice when a bright camera flashed right on his eyes. You could tell he was annoyed -but he didn't flip anyone off. You don't know what was going on in his life -or mind...just like he had no idea you were so excited to see him live and that your night had been perfect thus far. I'm not excusing his actions -but to judge him so quickly is unfair. Who knows how the bright lights could have affted his performance?? It's too bad you have REacted to his actions and won't enjoy one of the best albums of the year in October.
Chill, bitch. Keep hatin', you do it well.
Oh dear God. Put your phone away and enjoy the show. Will everyone put their effing phones etc away and just enjoy gigs. I would have flipped you (and the others) the bird too.
As for RMutt, Jesus! What planet are you guys on? Seriously?
You should just get over it. Band of Horses doesn't need your support. They are bigger than you think. They sell out the venues that they play in. If you were really a fan, you wouldn't go to the show videotaping the performance. How is that enjoyable? I wouldn't enjoy it myself if I did that.
WAAAAA, I got the finger, WAAAA he called me out, you sound like a whiny baby. Maybe you should put away your camera and enjoy the show.
Just a few things...
First, I don't blame Ben for being pissed. I was in a band for seven years and I can imagine how that kind of stuff would be annoying (we were never good enough to warrant people videoing us, but my hell, how annoying that would be).
Secondly, talk about hypocritical. Yes, I know I know, you pretty much admitted it yourself. Well guess what, if I go shoot someone and then admit it on my blog, does it make it any better? Fact is, you sound like a bitter 16 year old after he's told he can't drive the car Friday night. F-him F-that. Real mature.
Third, and I cannot express this point enough...I am sooooo glad that you won't be attending another BoH show. "Fans" like you are the exact people I can't stand being next to in a concert.
Farewell, you won't be missed.
There's a real dilemma here for you. Either you're a fan or you're a journalist (i.e. blogger). If you're a fan, then why would you want to spend one of your favorite songs looking through a viewfinder and trying your best to keep your camera steady? If Bridwell looked down to see one of his fans was paying more attention to their shot than his performance, particularly someone who has pushed their way right up front, perhaps he has the right to be offended. But then again, so do you.
However, if you are filming from the perspective of a blogger/journalist who wants to put this up on Youtube and be part of the online indie-rock community, then fleeing after receiving the finger is unacceptable. True journalists stick their necks out all the time and deal with the consequences involved with getting the story/footage/interview they need to tell a good story.
I don't think it's fair for you to straddle both sides of that line at the same time. Based on your comments in this posting, it appears that you had your "blogger hat" on - at least during Funeral, in which case you have no right to take offense. I think that's why people are writing angry comments here.
I sympathize with you to a point. No one wants one of their favorite bands to come down on them. But when you chose to film the performance, you were no longer just a fan.
Cullen, you make valid points, I think you're totally right as far as the necessity for performers to adapt to their changing environment. However, I still feel like there's needs to be a separation between the use of a technology and the behaviour of the user...these to me are two very separate issues.
Rosemary did something that the band didn't agree with and she was given the finger. Maybe she enjoys the show through a camera lens, whatever, I don't know...but either way, if Ben can be held accountable for his actions on a massive scale, then Rosemary has to accept that she can be held accountable on the micro scale.
You're right, going to see a mosh-friendly band doesn't entitle someone to punch you in the face...but, its naive to assume that in going to see that band...there will be a mosh pit, and if you're close to it, you might get hit. Similarly, its naive of Rosemary to go to a show, sneak up to the front, weild her camera, and not expect slack from either the band or the surrounding audience. You can't assume every act wants to be photographed or videotaped, and the concept that you have the right to do so is wholly egotistical. I don't go around photgraphing random people on the street without asking their permission, and I certainly wouldn't dare post it online without it.
Rosemary took that mindset inside a venue, and all of a sudden assumed that the rules were different and in her favor. But if I was busking on the street, and she came up to me and just started taping, odds are I would stop and ask what she was doing. And no matter what her intentions are, she still requires permission from me to use my music, image, etc. Buying a ticket to a show still doesn't entitle people to break those rules. I smoke dope when I go to shows. So does everyone else. Doesn't mean when the bouncer comes up to me and tells me to fuck off, I can say: "hey man, that's what everyone's doing these days, learn to adapt."
As as enjoyment of a show goes, I can't define what that means. You're absolutely right, if someone likes watching through a camera, then that's what they like, I can't tell them how to enjoy things.
However, what I gathered from Rosemary's post was that her videotaping the show has no relationship with her enjoyment of that show. She expressed that she would just stick in on YouTube, there was no reference to, "I got out my camera and enjoyed the show through my lens" or, "Man, I love watching shows with my camera out." Her enjoyment, and her videotaping, from what she says, don't seem mutually inclusive. She enjoyed the show...and also she videotaped it. That's how I read it. And that's how I read most people who act in this manner. People who shout out requests, people who sing off key...they are obviously enjoying and are into the show. More importantly, they are obviously paying attention to what's going on. On the other hand, people who are holding video cameras...I don't know, I just don't see how you can prove that that reflects some sort of added entertainment value, unless all these people are voyeurs and get off on watching things through a lens. I doubt that.
And finally, as far as Ben's apology goes...I don't really know that he should have been apologizing in the first place. Audience members are as susceptible to criticism as the act is. If I'm dancing like a fool (likely) and the lead singer thinks I'm being an idiot and calls me out on it...fuck, that sucks, but I was probably dancing like an idiot. If I call out a request and they don't want to play it...and they call me asshole for doing so...damn that sucks, but they're not a jukebox; Maybe they overreacted, but so what? They have as much of a right to insult me as I do them. And I have the right to be critical. And so do they.
So to sum up...everyone pretty much has the right to do whatever they want.
With the exception of expecting sympathy when someone holds them accountable for doing whatever they wanted.
I do a lot of things that I want. And if its pissing someone off, my first instinct isn't to hate them and call them names, its to try to accomodate them and understand where they're coming from. I feel that attitude can only lead to the best possible outcome. If I determine they're being unreasonable, then that sucks, but that's their problem.
And so what if I paid to go see the show? That doesn't entitle me to invincibility.
Rosemary's oulook is that if something she does pisses someone else off...that's tough; she's right, she paid her money, so she can do whatever. And I think that's utter bullshit. And I definitely don't sympethize with her in the least.
DEATH to the Shutter Monkeys!
F*cking poseurs. "Look at me, I was at the Band of Horses show. I was right in front, too. Look at my pictures."
i pity any band that has you as a fan.
I think djfreshie2000 makes the best points, especially his 8:03am post.
I don't think you're doing Band of Horses & other bands a publicity favor by posting a video of theirs on YouTube. I mean, it's a nice gesture, but they have these things called "publicists" that get the word out & spread publicity. Your YouTube video is going to make them sell as many records as Black Eyed Peas, as you put it.
And the incident wasn't THAT big of a deal. The bottom line is, the preformer more or less expressed his desires to have you stop filming him. Yes, it wasn't the most graceful wway of expressing his views, but then again, it wasn't as awful as you're making it out to be. So when he tells YOU to stop, or gesture at you to stop, you stop! Don't be so stubborn! And don't worry about the 5 other people doing it behind you. I'm sure he wants them to stop too.
But to then go home & write in your blog about how much you hate this guy is totally immature. I mean, "Bandaid of Horseshit?" Ooo. How about you grow up a bit & leave your digital camera at home next time you go to a show. Lots of people do it. Lots of people have been doing it "back in the day." And they all still manage to enjoy the show.
...And the band's publicity machine rolls on through the publicists on the label's payroll. So you can rest easy about that.
the bottom line is, Ben's right about EVERYONE bringing cameras, phones, etc to the show. It's like noone can focus on ONE thing at a time. It's so fucking annoying to have to watch a show through someone's phone or camera. It's just so pompous and disregarding for people around you.
And Ben's a musician, who are prone to being assholes. What's your excuse?
Hey at least only the singer of the band was pissed at you. if i was one of the fans who got in early to be in front, and actually watched and listened to the opening acts, only to have some group of girls fresh from their power hour of boozing shove their way up front in front of me then stick a camera up in the air to block my view i would have been flipping you off too.
Lets see - you say this album was a big part of your life for a year, yet you "scored" FREE tickets to see them and sold off the one you bought. So you saw the show for FREE instead of supporting the band you said you loved. Talk about being a whiny little....
Get over it, bands/musicians don't owe you anything.
I live in Pacific Beach, with the "jocks", and was at that concert. I didnt notice Ben flipping rosie off, but i sure as hell notice him go off on a very negative tirade right after a song that a lot of people had payed money to hear. From where i was standing the tirade wasn't about people filming, it was about people there only to film Funeral. I listened to band of horse's entire album because of Funeral, when funeral was circulated on the music blogs. Loved the song, bought and listened to the entire album because of it picked up on Wicked Gil and Our Swords, but honestly the rest of the album didn't stick. Instead of bitching about people coming to see them for just one song, Ben should be happy that that many people showed up at all to see a not so popular band with just 4 good songs to their name. And since when do people care about the way their audience is dressed anyway? Just because of the place we live at we're not expected to like certain kinds of music? If we'd all shown up with beards and faux-hawks, or decked out as self satisfied hipstery, would we have been accorded more respect? The tirade destroyed the entire show for me. I too would have never heard of BOH if it weren't for funeral. Its not like funeral was being played on the radio either, those "jocks" who showed up for the concert had to do some digging to hear of BOH at all. Honestly a band that's only been playing their main song for 1 year shouldn't be bitching about it, and should be taking full advantage. In my years of watching small bands in san diego perform to the "jocks", i've never seen anyone complain about the level of enthusiasm rising when the band quits playing some (honestly shitty) new songs and goes back to a good staple. Its not our fault that he can't produce the string of good songs that bands like the decemberists (who played Canes after having their entire kit stolen a few days earlier) can.
After re-reading the Pitchfork interview, what really sticks in my craw (other than the part where he gets pissed at a "fucking four-year-old" for "judging" him) is that he said he was mad at the audience for not reacting to his songs the way he wanted them to.
First off - I don't know about anyone else, but when I saw BoH at the Hollywood Bowl the day after this incident occured, I thoroughly enjoyed their set - sitting down and with my eyes closed. Their music isn't the type to inspire dancing or visible physical involvement - it's much more internal than that. So maybe people were into the show, just not the way he thought they should be.
And secondly, if the audience isn't involved in the music, the only thing that can change that is you as a performer and your band members. I have been to plenty of shows where I knew much less than one song by a band and have been completely engaged by them. It's called stage presence. And the only time stage presence involves flipping someone off (if ever) is if you're in a punk or hardcore band, where visible disdain for the audience is an integral part of the culture and is almost expected. BoH are pretty much at the end of the spectrum from those types of bands.
And as far as Rosey not having the right to take photos or video of the show, the venue has no policy regarding these things, and the band did not specifically state that no cameras or video taping would be allowed. If things like this really anger Bridwell, then he should make sure that the venues he plays don't allow this type of activity, and make sure that the bouncers will uphold that policy. That would be much more effective than flipping off every person who films your show.
I don't want to see incidents like this cause venues to have stricter photo policies. I do lots of concert photography, and I would never have gotten my start if it weren't for venues like the Casbah and Canes. Yes, it does annoy me that everyone these days has an SLR camera that's better than mine and 9 times out of 10 they don't even know how to use it. Yes, it bothers me when I catch someone else's flash in my photo and it messes up the exposure. But then I remember that at one point in time (a mere 4 months ago, actually) I didn't have the credentials or the friendship of local bands to get into shows that required photo passes. But now, thanks to venues like these with lax/no photo policies, I've built up a pretty prolific portfolio and, thanks to Rosey for linking to my stuff and getting my photos out there, a name for myself. Both of which I've used to help out local bands, which is really what Rosey and I are both about.
Rosey's done a lot for the local scene here - she goes out probably 6 out of 7 nights a week, sometimes to multiple shows, all to support the artists she loves and give them the appreciation they deserve. All you people leaving negative comments, I ask you one question - when was the last time you did anything to actually support a band or your local scene?
Alright, I'm done pinch-hitting for Cullen today.
i dont want to post, i really dont but having have read all of this for reasons unbeknownst to myself, i need to make some points so i can go to sleep, i have to work tomorrow.
i think there is an important lesson to be learned here about communication. what happened on a caveman level here is someone said fuck you with their finger and someone said fuck you with their words in a blog. if Ben had said "hey guys can we put the cameras away, they are distracting.." there may not have been such a problem, people probably would have listened, but he reacted in a way that a lot of people werent into, especially rosie, who said fuck you back through her blog.
and she had the right to because to get flipped off by someone who you are supporting (whether or not she got the tickets for free, he didnt know that) is a shitty thing.
you can argue copyright infringement all day long, and i have, several days, about photography and about music, but the fact is that it is going to continue to happen more and more and more because the tools are becoming more widespread. it doesnt matter what you think or how you feel about camera phones or youtube. your way of relating to the world may not be changing, but a LOT of people around you are changing the way they do things.
i once read a book about globalization and a great point was that globalization is not right or wrong, globalization is here and its going to increase and thats the way it is. same with technology.
the music business is not hurting because of only less people buying cds, less people are going to shows, less people are paying for music because the percieved value of cds has gone down for many people, including myself. when i was younger all my money went to cds, now im more careful because i got tired of so many hype bands that really suck. plus now kids can get a cd or a dvd for the same price and the ones on prozac (millions of them) like the moving pictures.
i am a musician myself and the more i see the music industry collapsing, the more i realize that the only ones who will be able to survive as touring musicians are the ones who are great, so thats what im going for because this is what i have chosen to do with my life. Ben should take a second to realize that if no one cared about Funeral, he wouldnt be on the road which is what a lot of people kill for. people attached themselves to that song and if they missed the point on the others? well thats the general public for you. one thing is for certain though, the taping of shows or life in general is not going away, and i will not be seeing or hearing BOH anymore cause i have a million other options and other musicians who need to be supported.
sorry for such a long post, remember to communicate better with others, goodnight:)
Just to make the point really clear:
You can do stuff that pisses other people off (like filming BoH), but they can't do stuff that pisses you off (like being flipped off).
I know where you are coming from with the recordings, but isn't life better when viewed through your eyeballs instead of a 2 inch lcd screen? And wouldn't it be better to bring a microphone and digital audio recorder to the show than a cheap camera? After all, these are musicians! They are not visual artists! It is a pet peeve I share with this lead singer of Band of Horses, all of the photographers jostling each other in front of the stage when I and others just want to watch the show. The worst is when inconsiderate photographers take pictures with flash on. As a musician, I find this to be somewhat distracting and it causes me to lose rhythm.
Indy rock is a different scene though, where it seems the antics of the crowd are as much a part of the performance as the band. It is more acceptable. As this man has forgiven you, perhaps you should extend the same grace. Remember, after all: his job is making music, not being a nice guy, or dancing around on stage. If he does it well, congratulate him, even if he is an ass to you!
uh, based on how many of you have commented/read this, I'd say that those of you saying that Rosemary isn't giving this band publicity have been proven wrong.
Natalie, I highly disagree with your stance that it is up to the artist to alter their show to involve the audience in the music more. Music is either a form of expression, or a form of entertainment, or both. The most succesful artists tend to skew most towards offering both entertainment and personal expression. but you can't expect every act to want to pander to their audience. Playing music is not easy, and not everybody chooses to spend the extra effort on creating a visually intereting dynamic performance in lieu of more practice and rehearsal or songwriting. All musicians choose to fill their time differently.
In this case, BoH obviously doesn't give a shit about their live performance. But they WOULD like their music to inspire their audience. You said it yourself, you enjoyed the show with your eyes closed. What I inferred from the interview wasn't that he was angry at people who weren't damoving or clapping along...whatever, that happens sometimes. He seemed obviously peeved at the crowd who wasn't even paying attention to the show...who were looking around, talking to friends, etc. Basically, it seemed like he was angry at being treated like wallpaper, like a lot of acts are being treated like these days.
Martin, I don't know where to start here. Comparing Copyright Infringement and Globalization? Globalization just refers to interdependance economically or politically. The phone reflects Globalization, its not a negative thing...and you can argue against it as awhole, as you state, but you certainly can validate your case against specific points.
On the other hand, the argument that "because technology is improving" rationalizes copyright infringement...cannot be validated. Ever. Its in the title...INFRINGEMENT...its wrong. No artist ever deserves to have his work used without his permission...nobody ever deserves to have have their images used or ideas copied without their permission, it doesn't matter who you are, or what you paid to be there, or why you're doing it.
And the perceived value of CDs is decreasing...NOT the perceived value of music...that is actually increasing. Concert attendance is at an all time high, and downloads Legal or Illegal, are higher than record sales ever were. The problem is that the industry hasn't found a way to sell music online. iTunes isn't a music company and they don't realize a dollar a song doesn't fit into a realistic pricing model. But they don't care because they sell an assload of computers and music is a loss leader.
I still think the internet providers should be paying out royalties and let the money flow directly from the source. That's where music audience's money is going in the first place, isn't it? Same way we pay for Cable TV, and I can Tape or Tivo any shows I want to watch over and over again. Monitor people's monthly downloads and charge based on how many gigs they swap. That's it. The more songs I download, the more I pay to my ISP, the more the ISP pays to the artists and labels. Fuck, am I insane or doesn't that make the most sense? DRM just fucks everyone over.
Wow, so since I can’t post a reply to the article from pitchfork, I will post one here like it seems so many others here have.
Since art and the need to translate the human experience with pictures, music, written word etc…began, it has been exploited. For an artist to complain about this is more than anything, a waste of time. To add to this, the more famous you are, the more you will be exploited. So you can spend a bunch of time complaining about all the ways people are not responding to your art in a way you want them to, or you can say “Fuck it!” and continue to make art regardless. If you have something you need to take to the pulpit and preach about, then do it as an artist, not as a whinny baby. At least Rosemary did it as a writer. Ben decided his middle finger and pouting for the rest of the set was the best way to make his point.
I was at the show that night, was totally into it. Maybe some other people weren’t but I was a fan who was. I paid to be there and enjoy it and the only person who disrupted the performance was not the girl, or any other people, with a camera. It was the guy on stage who stopped putting on a real performance after someone was “exploiting” him. To top it off, his side of the story completely insulted me. I live in San Diego, I am not a hipster, but I do enjoy music. If you want to shit all over your fan base then go right ahead, but I for one am not going to pay to be insulted. As an artist, as a fan of music, I just have to say that he really needs to take himself less seriously. People are going to do what they want with his art, they are going to enjoy some of it and hate some of it. They are going to pirate and exploit it. He may not like it and he may have right to be pissed at it, but is flipping someone off and putting on a crappy performance really an effective protest?
you're gonna love going to a cat power show.
I hear him on the one-hit wonder angle. I've noticed this trend alot at shows where the audience only knows "the hit." I finally put 2 and 2 together when I went to the 91 X Fest. Holy shit. The audience literally was on to about one song per band. Check out how both 91x and 94.9 play only one song by Silversun Pickups. It's a good song, but it's been like a year and they've yet ot introduce a new song. Jeesus, they're making one hit wonders out of all these bands.
Don't use flash, ever.
You're not shooting a stadium show, so if you use flash you're literally blinding the artist with every shot.
Don't be an amateur, learn to take longer exposure shots.
Also, relax. You're unbelievably high strung.
I can't believe I just read every single one of those fucking posts. My brain has been raped. I have been swallowed up and asphyxiated in the bottomless black depths of the ocean of human inanity. In fact, I am now misanthropic. I can't believe I did that to myself.
Anyway, DJFreshie2000 wins the Rosemary/Band of Horses contest for most comprehensive ethical response to this most pressing philosophical dilemma. Now I must consult my copy of the Myth of Sisyphus: 'Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy'. Thanks very much guys, you've tipped the scales. It is definitively not worth living anymore.
To quote Ben Bridwell:
'At every occasion I'll be ready for a funeral' (my own)
HahAHHAHAhHAHAHAHhhahaha...you internet people are so crazy.
None of you understand the pressure of being in a band, a real working band and not some instant pop success. the endless touring and seperation from your family all in the name of art. and then you go play a show and fucking fratboy pieces of shit go to hear ONE song, and film it for their fucking blog, and leave. Try to see someone else's side.
Oh and if you went to your job Rosemary and something by one of your assistants wasn't done right, you'd bitch. So how do you think Ben was out of line to complain about the sound? If it was your show, wouldn't YOU?
Get a grip and stop judging.
I fail to see the big deal. And with a title like "Band of Horses Hates Me"? Christ lady, grow up.
july 9. yes, eddie. july ninth. get with the fucking program. you're telling me to fucking grow up and you're commenting on a random blog four months after a shitty little incident and a dozen more posts on this very site? if it wasn't friday and i wasn't hungover, i would've let this go, but seriously, kiss my fat ass.
Ummm. You were both wrong. End o' story? They're musicians, not politicians or your best friend.
Go see the show. Buy their album. MAYBE take a picture or two. Most of all, just enjoy their music. Isn't that simple enough?
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